modest mouse
Now I don't want to sound like a prude, but I think that this is pretty cool. It's called a Burqini, (get it? Burqua + Bikini=Burqini) and it is the new swim wear for Muslim women. It was apparently developed by a Muslim woman who was tired of swimming wearing massive clothes and bed sheets and such. Those things get pretty heavy when they are wet.I realize that there are some not-so-nice things that Muslim women have to deal with in their culture, but I really wonder if maybe we as Christians could take a few cues from them. They take modesty seriously, something I feel that many Christian women really have no idea about. Now, in Muslim culture modesty is enforced in a fairly un-loving way, which is not something I am condoning, so please don't get me wrong. Don't worry - I'm not suggesting that all Christian women should wear parkas and snowsuits all the time, but I think that it is something that needs to be addressed.
I'm going to make a few assumptions in this post. 1st, the reader is a Christian and wants to follow God as he has revealed Himself to us in the Bible, and 2nd that the Bible tells us to be modest and to live modestly.
I'm gonna just give it to you straight up ladies: Guys struggle with lust. They struggle with lusting after you. I lust after you. That's a pretty intense statement, and maybe I'll regret it later, but I'm tired of complaining about it to my male friends, and I think something needs to be said to the women of the Church without glossing it over.
Now, some of us struggle less than others, but it's a fact. There is no guy who doesn't have to fight against it. It's not cool, it's gross, , it's perverted, but it's true.
Maybe your thinking "yeah, thanks Ryan, now we all know that you are a pervert, it's not like I didn't know that I was supposed to be modest"
What I'm saying is, if everyone knows that they are supposed to be modest, why don't they do something about it? Maybe you are doing something about it - I have many good friends who put a lot of effort into being modest, and I thank them for it. One thing I ask: If you do have it figured out, if you really understand what I am talking about, please tell other girls about it. Don't let your friends leave their house until they put some clothes on. It sounds crazy, but I am dead serious, this is important stuff. The Bible talks about keeping each other accountable and pushing each other to serve God better. (Hebrew 10: 25-26)
If you are unsure about an article of clothing, err on the side of caution, please. If you have a shirt or a skirt or a bathing suit or something that your are thinking "hmm...well, it's not that bad", please throw it away or burn it or something, because it is that bad, plain and simple.
At this point, I should probably say something about the guy's responsibility to the woman. I'm not blaming all females for my sexual sins. I'll admit that I don't try as hard as I should to control my eyes and my mind. The point that I am trying to make is that it's really flipping hard, and it's is spiritually draining. It is hard to focus on praising God and being a witness for Him when 90% of your Spiritual energy is being used up trying to control your eyes and thoughts.
Another aspect of modesty that is rarely talked about: What are your clothes saying to the world around you? What subliminal message are you sending when you are wearing a low cut top or a short skirt. What about if you are wearing a skimpy top with something else underneath to make it presentable? Or the short skirt with the leggings underneath which seams to be the new thing. Now I'm probably making a few enemies here, because I'm not sure if this is a widespread opinion, and it's possible that I'm just hyper-conservative or something. But to me, those things indicate a sort of unwillingness to commit. It's dualism. You still want to be stylish and "cute" but also want to be modest. There's nothing wrong with looking good, but I think there is more to modesty than just covering your body up.
Dictionary.com defines modesty as:
| 1. | the quality of being modest; freedom from vanity, boastfulness, etc. |
| 2. | regard for decency of behavior, speech, dress, etc. |
| 3. | simplicity; moderation. |
The trouble with this topic is that there are various opinions on what modesty is and what modest clothing is. The main idea I had when I started to write this post was to begin in a small way to open up the lines of communication between Christian males and females - especially the youth. It's a difficult and sometimes awkward thing to talk about, but I think if it was not so much of taboo topic, it would be much less of a problem. My thought it was most women simply don't realize the magnitude of the problem because they have never been inside the male mind.
I think for now, I will leave it at that. I may write more about this later on, it is a pretty huge topic to cover in one post. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this, especially if you are a girl.
posted by Ryan at Saturday, September 22, 2007
26 Comments:
Thank you for being so willing to address what so many Christian men have troubles with every day. I hope that you will be encouraged to continue in your work, and that others will be touched by your message.
I'm linking this post. I hope you don't mind and I know you won't.
Thank you so much for writing this, Ryan! It's such an encouragement to me.
Some outfits are even worse. Like those thin, skin-tight body-suits that some girls wear in the gym, especially if they wear no other clothes over or underneath them. Grrr. You can see everything; they might as well not even be wearing clothes!
That makes it really hard for us guys to stay pure in thought and deed. And getting addicted to lust can be absolutely devastating to one's body and to one's God-given destiny.
Thanks, Ryan. Dear girls, ditto what he said. This is serious business, and I'd appreciate your help. Lots of "old folks" complain about the fact that we don't have enough young men interested in the ministry. I don't know if this is true or not, but perhaps there is a correlation between sexual sin and a lack of interest in ministry. I know for myself that when I am living a sexually sinful life, I am totally useless as a servant of God for the benefit of others. This situation really sucks, because I believe that my calling is to serve God and others, and feeling useless because of my own sin sucks. Please, ladies, help us out.
Dear Ryan (and Ben and all you other guys who may read this)
Okay, I want to say something here, but I'm not exactly sure what. I guess I'll just say that you hit it right on Ryan. We want to look nice and yes, maybe even 'cute'. And I know as a girl, finding clothes is really hard these days. It is so hard to find shirts that you don't have to wear something underneath to make it 'modest'. Unless it's a baggy shirt. Which doesn't really strike me as 'nice'.
I realize, and am fully aware of your struggle, (not just you Ryan, but every guy) and I do/will do/want to do, my best to make it as easy as possible for every guy I am in contact with. And I might regret this later, but I'm up to you telling me if something I wear makes it harder for you...or get your girlfriend too. I love you and I don't want to cause you to sin or stumble or make it difficult for you.
God bless! Praying for you,
Carol-Lee Joy
hey ryan,
you said a lot of interesting stuff here, but i guess i really appreciate that you were humble enough to admit that you have a problem and to personally ask for help. i think most girls are only told by their parents or by books or their other girl friends that they are supposed to be modest and never fully understand the reason why. a lot of them probably never have a guy admit personally that he needs their help in the way they dress. I think for me, a lot of the time i feel that modesty goes kind of unappreciated, so your post was an encouragment to me and reminded me that modesty is really important.
anyway, i could say a lot more, (it is kind of a big topic), but i will leave it at this,
keep up the good fight!
...that was me
Ok..I admire you approaching the subject Ryan, and I believe it's a big one, but I keep hearing what you've just said over and over...What I would like to see is a guy saying, " Wow..that girl, right over there, she is dressed nicely. that's modest. thats what we need to see more of"
I see all these modesty-tests in Brio magazine and elsewhere, 'lean over in front of a mirror to check before going out"
It's a good idea, but when I feel like I've been following the modesty rules for the MOST part, the best I can, it's hard to hear my christian guy friends saying they are struggling so much. Because we aren't trying to be a stumbling block!
Hmm...I hope I'm not offending you at all, but I wish I was seeing something happening rather than hearing the same statements over and over. It's not a dead topic...but it's kind of in a rut.
Thanks Tamara, I appreciate the feedback. A couple of thoughts:
I don't think that in this post I ever said "all girls wear skanky clothes". I think I made it fairly clear that I appreciate it when girls do make the effort. The point I'm getting at is that
"lean over in front of a mirror to check before going out" isn't really enough. I am likewise sorry if I am offending you with this, but like I said in my post, there is a great deal more to modesty than just covering up your body. If fact, there are some pretty huge areas of modesty that apply just as much to males which are almost completely overlooked.
You also said "I wish I was seeing something happening rather than hearing the same statements over and over. It's not a dead topic...but it's kind of in a rut."
That is exactly what I am saying. I know people talk about it, and I know many girls (yourself included) put a good deal of thought and effort into it. I don't want to belittle anyone's effort - any effort in this regard is a step in the right direction. I really wish I was seeing something happening as well.
The problem that I am addressing is that I don't see anything happening. If anything, I see it getting worse.
Now, I would love to be able to say to you "hey, look at her, she is very modest, you should dress like her". That would make it a whole lot simpler, but frankly, I don't really think it is necessary. Here's why: The first and most important part of modesty is covering the body. There are many other aspects to it as I alluded to in my post, but for now we'll just talk about this one part of it. My biggest argument is this right here: Covering all of the body up is not hard. I know there are many different fashions and styles and whatever that make this difficult. My challenge to you and all girls is this: What comes first? Fashion or love for your neighbor?
I agree with you - lets stop beating around the bush and get serious about this stuff.
You don't have to wear a paper bag, but it's not that bad wearing a t-shirt that covers you from the neck to the waist on a hot summer day - I do it all the time!
Keep in mind that none of this is necessarily directed at you, Tamara, I am simply responding to what you said and giving you my thoughts on it. I hope that you find this helpful, and I would like to hear your thoughts on my thoughts.
The purpose of fashion is to bring together modesty and imagination. Anything that does less than that is not fashion but something else. Why do we wear clothes anyway?
Anyway, I agree, people need to be more vocal about it, make more of an effort (including myself), be more imaginative rather than just make modesty a "Don't Do This" thing and rather a creative "venture." And it would help if we had more Christians in the fashion business, but there is unequal support for people going into the ministry (rightly). I have been told straight up by people in my church and other Christians that fashion is "not as important as sending Bibles across the world" and any youth considering it as a vocation should be "discouraged." How can we even begin to tackle the problem of modesty if we focus on the sins and not the gifts of physicality? If modesty is considered something to restrain yourself with rather than a way to free humanity to worship God through the imaginativeness of their lives and respect for their neighbours, why shouldn't people dismiss it as hyper-conservative? Modesty should bring us closer to each other, by making it easier (and more fun) to get to know each other without the limitations of lust and vulgarity. Christian teenagers who have parties should make it less a matter of "no alcohol, sex, drugs, and secular rock and roll" and more a matter of how can we truly enjoy ourselves without getting stoned? We need to be saying how wonderful life is... and the reason I'm saying this is because in public school I look like a prig and don't know how to show them that it's life I'm advocating without sounding mean. Because maybe deep down inside of me I still believe that sin determines my behaviour, and I have to smack it regularly.
Woooh long-winded, I am far too opinionated. I'm sorry if I sound preachy, because this is mostly an issue I have not resolved myself.
Oops, I changed what I wrote and forgot to erase "(rightly)."
"The purpose of fashion is to bring together modesty and imagination. Anything that does less than that is not fashion but something else. Why do we wear clothes anyway?"
I like the way you said that. Fashion is not a bad thing; the focus of fashion is where it turns sour.
Ryan, I have to say that a regular t-shirt is actually much more comfortable and cooler than most of the other styles of shirts girls wear. lol.
Ok...cool. I guess I'd like to see modesty praised more verbally, Just because it's good to hear it.
Sometimes things that are good need to be pointed out.
i'd like to share an experience with you:
i went to mcmaster university for three years and in the first i was so impressed at just how hot were these 10,000 girls between age 18 and 22. it was amazing. but by third year i realized that they all look the same. same jeans. same sunglasses, same haircut, same hair highlights... and mostly it was just a reflection of their superficial attitudes too. but i met a girl in third year philosophy class that honestly made me say " Wow..that girl, right over there, she is dressed nicely. that's modest. thats what we need to see more of" it took me a while to realize why i thought so, but i realized that her clothes didn't even matter a bit-- her modesty came from inside, and you could sense it in her eyes, her smile, and her voice. and she wasn't at all naive either. suddenly it came clear to me what paul meant in 1 peter 3 that 'your beauty should nhot come from outward aornment such as braided hair and fine jewelery, but it should be that of your ineer self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight." modesty doesn't mean anything without chastity, and i mean chastity in the mind, not just on the outside. it seems to me that a lot of girls in my church 'flaunt their chastity'-- they like being chaste because it's somehow sexy. but i think that they entirely miss the point. modesty comes from inside.
if i hadnt already taken up too much room i would say something about guys, because i think they're even less modest, and not just in the mind anymore; it's starting to show. everybody's involved nowadays.
keep fighting the good fight!
Ryan, I appreciate your honesty and willingness to open up conversation lines on this issue so much. I'll admit, that more often than I care to say, that I look at an outfit and say "that's okay", instead of changing the outfit so that it's completely modest. I also don't usually bring up to my friends when I think they might need to re-evaluate an outfit either. This is think is because of a few things ... one is that I often feel that a modest outfit is one that gets missed and I don't want to be the one that no one notices. Two, I don't want to offend my friends. Three, I'm sinful and I think that's really the basis of why the two above happen.
A couple more comments.. Firstly, ever since I've been pregnant people comment on how I look a lot more. Including guys, which was something that isn't really normal for my past experience. It's like somehow you being pregnant makes you safe, and saying "you look good" is not going to make me think that you're only looking at my body. It's actually been refreshing, because I think comments such as "you look good" are good affirmations from the male gender to the female gender and vice versa in the Christian community. I know it would encourage me to know when I put the effort into dressing modestly that I'm not looking like some bag lady.
My second comment is that since I've been married, I've been privy into a bit more of the male mind, and I was caught off guard by the struggle that guys go through daily. I knew that lust was an issue, and I wasn't naive enough to think that the guys around me weren't dealing with it, but I wasn't aware just how flippin' hard it was to stay pure for guys. I guess this makes me even more responsible to have modest behaviour and clothing.
Ladies - let's make this easier for the guys we know and love and hang out with ... let's give them a rest from their battle when they're around us.
Okay, I should probably stop typing now.
Thanks again Ryan.
I am glad to see this post, and the discussion herein. However, there are some things that bother me and I have not figured it out. However, I am fairly certain that much interaction between young people is not how it should be.
1 I think it should be enough for parents to discuss modesty with our sisters and not need a guy to talk about how we suffer. When hearts are opened in this way, it becomes very easy to let someone else in at the wrong time.
2 Guys do notice (at least I do) when a sister is modest and really appreciate it, though I think that part of a guys job is to be modest enough to not tell her so - whatever that means. My own defence tactic to young women who are dressed immodestly is to completely ignore them - this is probably not the best, but it works for the guy when he is able to put it into practice.
3 I know that there are adults who try to get this message across, but it is hard when they are snubbed by other adults for being a prude(nt). Please take Paul's advice to timothy regarding teaching younger people seriously.
Ryan - appreciate not being in Europe, it is even tougher here.
God bless you all,
DKZ
ok. here we go. I wasn't going to do this, because my mind is confused. Ryan I really admire you for your honesty, and eagerness to make change.
I think you are right about the whole modesty thing and I try to understand how hard it is for guys even though I will never know the full extent of this.
However. You have to understand as guys that a part of the problem is what is asked of women these days. I dont mean in anyway to blame guys or give them the full responsibilty of this problem, I just want to explain how complicated it is for girls also. Now we get to this very interesting subject again: Media.
Many blame women for 'selling their bodies' Showing it off and such. Again I do think women have minds and can think for themselves, no one is putting a gun to heir head. But their minds are utterly confused. From when they were little they were dressed to look cute and be admired, as young teenage girls they have been judged on wether they were hot or not. As they grew up they noticed the attention when they dressed a certain way. The magazines and tv programs portraided beautiful again hot girls. They thing they noticed the most is that guys were attracted to this. Girls minds have been battered and injected with these thoughts. I am convinced that every human being just simply wants to be loved. Girls think they receive love by getting this attention. What I am trying to say is that some men and women in this world have created an image of a women and boys are told to go after this women and girls are told to be this women. I am not saying men have started this problem, we are both to blame. I just think we need to pray for eachother. Women pray for the guys that they may have the strength to turn away from temptation. And guys pray for girls that they may see real beaty and receive real love. Again Ryan its good to bring this up. That way we can help eachother.
Mieke
amen, thanks Mieke
Thank you everyone for you comments!
Please keep them coming if you have anything to add, this is a topic that is very close to my heart and I really want to learn more about how we can instigate change in Christian youth!
The Bible in all of this. That is where I need to start. That is where we all need to start. That is what makes sense to me because I believe and confess the entire Bible to be true, and that is where I base my faith.
I will assume the same as Ryan in that I expect/assume most of the readers are Christian, as I write some of my own personal findings.
I would like to start with issues that were addressed that stuck out too me.
1.the women who do cover up and yet may as well not because the tight clothing they choose to wear instead of the revealing clothing are not any less provocative; man has imagination as do ladies... say no more!Girls and boys, lets start doing these thing right as Chinldren of God.
2.... "because someone else said it was ok, and in my mind they are a good Christian, then let that standard be ok in my life... "...let us all consider Galatians 6: 4 (not restricted to only that, if you have time you can read the first portion starting at verse 1! that gives you an idea of how to bring the issue of a sin across to someone in a loving way. A way which as a result would bring you and the sister or brother closer to Christ!
If you have more time you can read the list of acts of the sinful nature in Galatians 5: 19 and forwards but don't be afraid to start at verse 16, only start at verse 19-26 if you are running short on time! This you will notice has application for both sides of the puzzle: our struggle and the cause! (I'm always amazed that when the Bible is accessed and read, how true the statement is "nothing new under the sun)
Now, if there is anyone else out there who still finds that they have some extra time on their hands, let that person also check out Philippians 2 and 3; all read with no less importance than the last passages! Now I refrain from this item
3."...Why do we wear clothing..."
The first thought in my mind was because man fell into sin. One of two thing are possible here, I totally misread this question or it was (2) written in haste, minus the thought program.... (Just a thought!)
4. Can we stop apologizing? You do that after you have offended some one and they let you know that! as a friend I would only ever assume that you would write/ say/ comment on something because it was for the up building of myself... in which case I would thank you and you would say no problem... not SORRY!
5.I would like to consider the list of people emailed for the Praise and Worship of our heavenly Father. It is very substantial. Now I would like to consider the intergrety of a blog. ( I am fully awares that I am part of my own critisism right now and hopefully that doesn't cause anyone to stumble over what is beeing said.)
It seems lacking for the very reason that it is a spuratic, emotion filled, unorgaized paper, written so that we could feel like we all put our 2 cents in. I now am considering the weightyness of the issue which Ryan is talking about.... ..... ..... ..... The two don't add up in my mind. The validity of ryans point seems too great for the likes of a whimsy thought proccess. Too bring the Praise and worship thing into perspective, that would seem like a minimum for people that you would like a responce from.
6. Girls, an honest question for you from myself.... Maybe I will consider myself instead of asking you to expose your self. Aborrtion comes to mind when I see a skantly dressed lady... that is after a long drawn out thought process which brings us to the lowest point of minimizing ladies to "lust" factors... worst case sinario you could end up in a relationship which could result in a child out side of marrige. For people of the world abbortion is the solution in a world of freedom of choise. And now is that not just the point! we are in a world of freedom of choise. We compare ourselves to what the world does, and in most cases we are compareably "better" than them! And yet we are tottally missing the point. WE LIVE FOR GOD NOT THE WORLD. WE WILL HAVE TOO ANSWER ONE DAY TOO ALL ACTIONS TAKEN ON THIS EARTH. ANTHONY OUWERSLOOT WILL HAVE TOO AS will every one else. .... I got on the internet tonight and I had Britteny spears, Jlo Brad pitt and all the other "euforic" stars, staring me down in my tiny little Tony world. The question is, "Where is your heart?" "the answer is "There will be your treasure as well!" That's the difference between Godly Wisdom and worldy wisdom
7.The Bible does a very Effective job, in what I belive is Songs of Solomon, when describing the jelousy a man and a wife have for eachother in a God fearing relationship. This is very powerfull. At the end of Proverbs 6 we can read that there is no mercy for the man who has to face the wrath of the man whos wife he has cheated on. Ther is no cost high enough in the whole world... Anger and envy are used at such high intervals by the devil, which is why we are to pray that the holy spirit work in us to help us. Nothing in our own strength but only in the Lords. Not becuse we deserve it, but Christ died for us. Not that our own good is advanced but that the Lords will may be done.
We pray that the Lords Kingdom may come, that we won't have to deal with the struggles of this world!
And yet we find our selves hear struggleing with sin. Persevere. The Bible speaks about this as well! May I leave you with your Concience as well as James1:27
It's getting late but I'm hoping for some feed back which will guide myself as well as ryan as well as all... all to the Glory of God!
Too ryan, if you made it to eading this last note I am thankfull for the large amount of patience which has been given unto you. Tony dialact is the hardest of sorts to desifer and yet if nothing else hopefully this is a good reason for futor conversation! We pray for eachother reguardless of known circumstances and now essesially for yours! Till next time
ok.. Tony touched on the fact that somebody said "why do we wear clothes anyways?"
Now I will agree that it has alot to do with the fact that mankind is fallen and can no longer handle seeing someone elses nakedness without sinning in some manner (outside of marriage of course). But there is so much more to it than that! I recently read "Searching for God Knows What" by Don Miller and was absolutly stunned by his chapter entitled 'Naked: Why Nudity is the Point'. I want to include a section from that and some of his main points because of how brilliantly I believe God has blessed this man with intellegence.
First, he starts with Genesis and how Moses states over and over that "they were naked and unashamed". He points out that when they sinned, they fully realized the fact that they WERE naked. he says "Man is wired so he gets his glory (his security, his understanding of value, his feeling of purpose, his feeling of rightness with his Maker, his security for eternity) from God, and this relationship is so strong, and God's love is so pure, that Adam and Eve felt no insecurity at all, so much so that they walked around naked and didn't even realize they were naked. But when that relationship was broken, they knew it instantly. All of their glory, the glory that came from God, was gone. ..No insecurity was felt when the person who loved you was around, but in his absence, it instantly comes to the surface... If man was wired so that something outside himself told him who he was, and if God's presence was giving him a feeling of fulfillment, then when that relationship was broken, man would be pining for other people to tell him that he was good, alright, okay with the world, and eternally secure... we all compare outselves to others, and none of our emotions--like jealousy and envy and lust--could exist unless man was wired so that somebody else told him who he was, and that somebody was gone."
This I think really has alot to do with why women dress the way that they do.. or would like to, for that matter. Nakedness symbolizes a security of who we are as a person. A person wants to be able to be naked and be loved at the same time. I think that women honestly just want to be loved and valued just as they are.. and Meike hit it right on the nail when she said that MEDIA lies to women of today and convinces them from an early age that attention = value. I think that the mojority of women today honestly believe that.
Another thing that makes it diffecult for girls (myself included) is that there are so many naked women out there for guys to look at, that it totally desensatizes us. Its almost like we think that since there is so much 'naked' out there, that alittle bit more probably won't be noticed, or even matter. Another thing is that because there is so much naked out there... it makes us girls with boyfriends intensely jealous. I wish that when I get married, that I would be the only naked women that my husband has ever seen. Most likely, because of this day and age, and the fact that it's almost impossible not to see one, that will never happen for any of us. Sometimes a girl likes to show alittle because she feels like shes being competed against. She is craving the knowledge that someone finds her sexually attractive, because, if even for a moment, that will mean that she is worth something.
I totally realize that all of this is wrong, but I also wanted to share what women really go through, and how TWISTED this world is.
Guys, TELL YOUR GIRLFRIENDS ABOUT YOUR STRUGGLES WITH THIS! Don't be delicate about it. Don't CRUSH her either. Be aware of her struggles. Love her, respect her, and above all, don't expect her to understand it completly. She will fail in this department sometimes, but don't forget to tell her how much you appreciate her strivings to be modest for YOU. (And other boys too.. )
Cassy
Thanks so much Ryan for being honest. You have brought this issue to the forefront of my mind again and I am grateful. You make a very good point here: "What about if you are wearing a skimpy top with something else underneath to make it presentable?...those things indicate a sort of unwillingness to commit. It's dualism." Thank you so much for making me understand. I never knew why it was that my mother disapproved so much of that sort of 'covering up'. Now i do. Thank you. On a side note: how's Redeemer? I here Steve sees you and Cass a lot. He loves that you guys are going to Redeemer! I would love to get together with you guys sometime.
The comments here are great and I definitely learned something from them. But my comment was hastily written and therefore probably hard to understand. My (vague) understanding of the clothing of Adam and Eve is that it was a foreshadowing of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. The reason I say this is because some people say that the point of God clothing them was that He had to kill animals to do it. He was clothing them from the bloodshed of His creation, His beloved. He was letting them go out of the garden protected by His promise of salvation. I am no theologian but I think it is a VERY exciting interpretation of Scripture (not mine, of course). That would mean that clothing is actually about something far more than a layer of protection from our lust/sin. It is rooted in God's promise. Therefore our clothing should express our relationship to the world and to God. If we believe God created the world as a blessing and placed humanity at the center of it to serve Him, then we should be celebrating the possibilities to be imaginative. If we also believe the world is broken and bleeding (and oh, we know this), we should be seeking God's healing and His direction for us. Therefore, the way we dress can be a witness to the world that we believe in a loving Creator and an AMAZING creation, so we should dress with imagination and in an earthy way (thinking of fabrics, silk, wool, canvas, all that we can use to dress!, etc). And we also believe that we are sinful, that only God can save us, and that in order to be rooted in Christ we need to dress modestly to help the healing of our neighbours/ourselves.
I'm not sure if it's an accurate interpretation but it certainly feels more powerful to change and reveal God's glory than simply saying clothing is the result of the fall and nothing else.
By my comment "not mine, of course" I just meant that the interpretation of Genesis 3:21 did not originate with me. And also the last paragraph is really confusing. I just meant that because we are Christ's followers we should be trying to help each other do less harm, to change, through the promise of salvation and redemption. We can do that by wearing clothes that don't tempt us to be sinful and twisted inside, and by wearing clothes that are appropriate to context, which is part of our identity, and how we understand and have relationships with others.
Ryan,
Thank you so much for this post. I am 23 years old and, sadly enough, am only now truly understanding what you guys go through in dealing with female immodesty. I admit that it has been empowering and fun to know that I can walk down the street or through the mall and turn guys heads...I will wear clothing that 'comes as close to the line as possible' without crossing it knowing they can't touch me. However, thanks to my wonderful boyfriend, I am quickly learning how dangerous those clothes really are! My eyes are being opened to the 'real world' of boys and (some of) their weaknessess. Suddenly that mini skirt that I thought was just a little tease is a HUGE stumbling block to guys trying to abstain from sexual immorality, and even a dress that I thought was decent just ends up being a little too tight. The other day I wore a sweater that I bought because I love the colour, but it was actually much more modest than I usually wear, and my boyfriend loved it and he told me that...but he also lets me know what clothes are a turn on (and why I can`t wear certain items because he doesn`t want other guys looking at me `like that`). I suppose if I`d had an older brother he might have clued me in on such things, and though my mom tried to tell me many times I just didn`t really get it until now. So guys, please don`t be afraid to take us aside and tell us if something we are wearing is immodest. We might be very embarrassed, but sometimes we really don`t understand the consequences of our actions. Also, compliment us on our modest attire (assuming it`s still nice, and we haven`t gone to the extreme and are wearing a bag)...we really do want to wear what pleases you. Ryan, I would never think badly of you talking about your struggles, but I feel guilty that I caused some of them, and for that I`m truly sorry. Thank you so much for bringing this topic into a more `public`eye since I feel like our church circles tend to turn away, thinking if they don`t see it it`s not there. This is an issue that we all need to be more aware of. In love,
Lydia
Two thoughts:
Cassy said: "I wish that when I get married, that I would be the only naked women that my husband has ever seen."
As Christians, how often do we think this and forget to desire the same for other people? We are jealous and do not want our (future) wife/husband to be thinking about former girlfriends/ boyfriends and yet we rush into relationships where we do not plan fulfilling the promise of love.
Thought 2:
Lydia wrote: "So guys, please don`t be afraid to take us aside and tell us if something we are wearing is immodest. We might be very embarrassed, but sometimes we really don`t understand the consequences of our actions. Also, compliment us on our modest attire"
Something that I have really struggled with is whether or not to complement a sister in Christ, and if so, how? And talking about modesty with a young woman? Is that appropriate for a young man?
DKZ
1 One thing I am hearing from the older women (If you don't mind me saying someone over 20 is older) is that their moms were trying to tell them what was decent and what was not, and they are starting to relize the truth of what their moms were saying. So for the younger girls, if you ask your parents about your clothes, they will help you in choosing them, even if this means taking your mom shopping with you. Maybe even if/though that might not cool.
2 I have heard and read that girls struggle with emotions just as guys do with lust. So to echo DKZ, how do young men compliment young women on dress, apperence or anything else without 'playing' with a woman's heart?
I have started to commpliment, but not often and hopefully without singling girls out. Am I right in doing this and if not what do I need to do?
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